Dining across the divide: ‘Every rightwing person should have a woke friend and vice versa’

Occupation Solicitor

Voting record As leader of the English Democrats – an anti-immigration party that wants an English parliament – Robin votes for himself. Never successfully

Amuse bouche Every year Robin and his wife do a cycle tour of the Netherlands. “There are separate cyclist lanes everywhere and it’s not hilly”

Aslak, 55, London

Occupation Software engineer and entrepreneur

Voting record He has lived in the UK since 2010 but, as a Norwegian national, hasn’t been able to vote here. He votes Labour in Norway

Amuse bouche Runs an art gallery that will shortly unveil a controversial work featuring a Norwegian royal

For starters

Robin I thought I’d be put with a full-on social justice warrior, but he wasn’t like that. I told him my father was in the army, I was born in Malaya, then sent off to boarding school when I was eight.

Aslak He was dressed nicely, shirt and blazer. Almost a stereotypically British chap. We talked a bit about the Vikings because everyone loves to talk about the Vikings when they meet a Scandinavian. He didn’t seem that interested in me or my opinions.

Robin I had a prawn starter, he had calamari, we shared a bottle of rioja. Apparently, they do karaoke there – not on this occasion, thankfully.

Aslak If there had been karaoke, I would have done Seven Nation Army. I’ve sung in several bands. For main we both had lamb chops, so that’s one thing we agreed on …

The big beef

Robin We shouldn’t be involved in Ukraine. We need to focus on our own interests and not get involved in foreign adventures.

Aslak Whether we like it or not, we live in a globalised world, with international trade, migration, alliances. You can’t isolate yourself. If there’s a war somewhere in Europe, it affects everybody. My worry is if Russia takes Ukraine, or a part of it, they won’t stop. Then there’ll be much more to pay – in money and lives – than from giving some support now.

Robin When the Soviet Union was dissolved there were promises that Nato wouldn’t expand to the east, promises that have been completely ignored. Most of Ukraine has been part of Russia since Catherine the Great. So from a historical point of view, you can see Putin’s argument.

Aslak Even if that was true, it isn’t today. A lot has happened in the meantime. Robin was happy for us to arm Ukraine, provided we charge for it. But he also said we should be willing to arm Russia at the same time, like a win-win situation. That sounds more like a business model than foreign policy.

Sharing plate

Robin We agreed people should be able to talk about things rationally. Once you think of another human being as an enemy, you’re not far off the next stage, which is that violence against them is acceptable.

Aslak We agreed a bit on surveillance. I’m against the government collecting information on citizens without any suspicions. It creates a scary power balance and causes people to self-censor, which is bad for democracy.

For afters

Robin The English Democrats campaigned for Brexit, and were obviously very pleased with the result. For a long time we have thought the British state, and its commitment to internationalist entities such as the EU, was against our interests. It hasn’t been a disaster economically; trade has continued to grow.

Aslak The biggest problem has been alienating your biggest trading partners. And students aren’t coming to Britain to study any more because they don’t know if they can stay. And it’s now no longer people from Europe coming, but from all over the world. I don’t see how this aligns with what a lot of Brexiters wanted.

Takeaways

Robin Aslak is a proper lefty, but he’s a proper lefty of the type I used to encounter years ago: rational about it, whereas one of the things we get with the culture wars is wild irrationality. We both said we’d enjoyed it.

Aslak We disagreed about most things, but it was friendly and respectful. Every rightwing person should have a woke friend and vice versa. Not that I’m woke … Well, maybe a bit.

Additional reporting: Kitty Drake

Aslak and Robin ate at Zebrano in Brentwood, Essex.

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