Aaron Sorkin and Mikey Madison on ‘The Social Reckoning’: Getting Inside a Whistleblower’s Mind, Jeremy Strong’s ‘Antihero’ Zuckerberg and Why Trump is the Movie’s Voldemort

SPOILER WARNING: This interview contains plot points, including some spoilers, for “The Social Reckoning,” opening in theaters on Oct. 9.

“The Social Reckoning” is many things — but those expecting a direct follow-up to 2010’s “The Social Network” may be surprised.

That earlier film, which earned Aaron Sorkin an Oscar for its screenplay, closely followed the emotional trajectory of Mark Zuckerberg (played then by Jesse Eisenberg) as he first created Facebook and then fought to defend himself against charges of IP theft. Now, “The Social Reckoning” confronts the world Facebook has made, with Zuckerberg (Jeremy Strong) a supporting character in the story of Frances Haugen (Mikey Madison), a mid-level Facebook employee who decides to become an unlikely whistleblower.

Haugen’s charges, in our world, became “The Facebook Files,” published in 2021 by Wall Street Journal reporter Jeff Horwitz and sharing with the world the company’s seeming indifference to its spread of misinformation and its negative impacts on mental health among young users. (Jeremy Allen White plays Horwitz in the film.) Madison’s tracking of Haugen’s steps from believer in Facebook’s mission as a member of its do-gooding, soon-to-be-dissolved civic integrity team to burn-it-down apostate is compelling in part because of the difference between this character and the Zuck we once knew. In Sorkin’s writing, Zuckerberg sees himself as a figure with the power to shift the culture. Haugen wants no such thing — but may have ended up doing so anyway.

The film represents a hinge point for both its writer-director and its star: Sorkin takes over directing duties from “The Social Network” helmer David Fincher, and the new film is the most anticipated of his four efforts so far behind the camera. For Madison, it’s her first film since her emergence as a star (and her Oscar win) with 2024’s “Anora” — a role whose emotional arc, from brashness to shy isolation, is more or less the opposite of Frances’.

In their one interview together promoting “The Social Reckoning,” out Oct. 9, Sorkin and Madison spoke about the trickiness of trying to make a crowd-pleaser about contentious issues, Madison’s inhabiting Haugen without yet having met her, and what Madison learned sharing a scene with the famously committed Strong.

I noted that multiple politicians are part of this story — I caught references to Donald Trump (obviously, given that the film depicts the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol), and to Bernie Sanders — but that they’re never mentioned by name. What did this lack of specific reference add to the way the story was told?

Sorkin: Is it OK if I … because I was the one who did that?

Madison: Yes!

Sorkin: Just because I was the one who did that. You didn’t get to decide.

Madison: Take it.

Sorkin: Two things: I didn’t want the distraction. And I don’t like for a movie to feel timely. I want it to feel timeless, and so a few years from now, 10 years from now, 50 years from now, I don’t want it to feel like you can only appreciate this movie if you were involved with the news back in 2026.

Mikey, Aaron writes famously rhythmic dialogue meant to be delivered with verve and speed — and delivered precisely as written. What was it like immersing yourself in that?

Madison: Reading his script, I was aware of it in some way, and also because of his work that I had seen and loved. But then being on set for my first day working with Jeremy Allen White, we had this monster of a scene with a ton of dialogue. It was quite dense, and a lot of information that we were going back and forth with. That was the first day where I was really like, OK, yes, this is like a different beast than anything that I’ve experienced before, but challenging, interesting, very different. I was very welcoming toward it because as an actor, it’s interesting to be experiencing all different kinds of work.

You’re playing a real person, Frances Haugen, and you hadn’t met her when you shot the role. Have you met her by now?

Madison: I’m meeting her very soon, and I’m really looking forward to it. I think we’ll have a lot to talk about, and also I just want to share my admiration for her in person. We’ve been sending some notes to each other back and forth via email, but this will be the first time like face-to-face.

Sorkin: You’re meeting her tonight. [Haugen and Madison walked the red carpet together at the New York premiere of “The Social Reckoning” on Oct. 4, the same day this interview took place.]

Madison: Yes, I am. But then we’re also meeting another time. Yeah, I’m playing a character based off of a real person, and we’re following her story and the facts of what happened very closely and specifically and honestly.

But in terms of building a character, it was one that I built purely from the ground up. Of course I wanted to meet her — I found her to be amazing. But I was also concerned that it would interfere with Aaron’s and my vision, and I didn’t want it to alter the character that I had created. And so I decided to just hold off a little bit until I reached out to her.

This film has a similar device at its opening to “The Social Network”: A vignette plays out that informs everything that comes after. Then, it was Rooney Mara’s character dumping Mark Zuckerberg. Now, it’s a young woman [Portia Doubleday] whose routine traffic stop by the cops turns into a parable about how social media has poisoned our brains. It ends up being hugely important to the movie. What inspired this story-in-miniature?

Sorkin: I had been spending a lot of time with Frances — many hours over a period of many months, and the same thing with Jeff Horwitz. What I had was a lot of information, but I couldn’t find the shape of a movie yet, until I asked Frances what was the inciting action. One day you weren’t a Facebook whistleblower. The next day you were. What changed? And she said, “I had a friend who had been radicalized by spending too much time on Facebook.” And I began to imagine the opening scene.

I didn’t realize that was drawn from life.

Sorkin: As is the opening scene in “The Social Network,” by the way.

Frances Haugen opened up to journalists and testified before Congress, but opening up to a dramatist strikes me as a different thing altogether. What was that process like for you?

Sorkin: I really have to hand it to Frances. I don’t know how many of us would have been happy about having a movie made about us — putting our life in the hands of a complete stranger, whose wishes and agenda may not be the same as ours. I would talk to her about that from time to time. Are you OK with this? Are you OK with that? And what was important to her was getting the word out about what she had discovered.

I think of “The Social Network” as a character study of Mark Zuckerberg. Here, though, he’s such a malign presence and, for me, a lot of his complication seems to have been sanded away by his success. Aaron, how did you talk to Jeremy Strong about playing him now? No actor wants to see the person they’re playing as irredeemable.

Sorkin: Yeah, sure, and neither of us did. The character of Mark Zuckerberg has a different function in this film than he did in “The Social Network.” He was an antihero, but he was the protagonist in “The Social Network,” and Frances is the protagonist in “The Social Reckoning.” But both Jeremy and I agreed that Mark is not a villain; he’s an antihero, which is to say, his goal is good, right? He just wants to connect people. That’s good, but his methods have become perverted along the way.

I know that when I’m writing an antihero, you can’t judge the character. You have to write the character as if they’re making their case to God why they should be allowed into heaven. Jeremy felt the same way about playing the character. He was Mark Zuckerberg’s biggest defender from the beginning — before he started shooting, during his shooting, and afterward. I didn’t read it, but I know that he wrote a letter to Mark, letting him know that he planned on playing the part respectfully and in Mark’s defense.

Mikey, you have one memorable scene where Strong’s version of Mark Zuckerberg runs roughshod over your colleagues while you watch. What was it like to shoot?

Madison: I was excited for that scene and happy that I was able to work with Jeremy, even if just for a little bit — with me off in the corner. I had heard so much about his process, and as an actress, I’m very curious if there are things that I can learn from other actors’ processes.

I obviously think the result of his work is very compelling, and so I was excited. I do feel like the energy that he brought to his character and like the way in which he wanted to film the scenes brought a really specific, intense energy to the environment on the set, which I think was incredibly helpful and added another layer and depth to it. And I really got to just be an observer — that’s what I was doing — and it was fascinating.

I also noticed that — not just when the camera was on him and capturing his performance, but when it was on other people — he was still in his character, really trying to get the best performances out of everyone. That’s very generous of an actor to do that, and I really appreciated that. It was inspiring to see another actor with a process as intense and specific as that be as generous. Do you know what I mean?

I do. There are plenty of actors who’ve been working hard and don’t give everything when the camera switches over to their costar’s shots.

Madison: But it’s always disappointing, too, because I really feel like you’re only as good as your counterpart. I always want the best performance out of the people I’m working with, so I was appreciative to see that.

Sorkin: You’re the exact same way. Mikey, doing her off-camera work — you would not know that she was off-camera.

Without spoiling the plot, there’s a dispiriting note at the end of the film as text on-screen informs us that some very high percentage of Americans get their news from Facebook to this day. Aaron, I think of you as an optimist — do you think there’s a way forward here?

Sorkin: As troubling as the climax of the film is, ultimately, you feel good at the end. It’s a feeling of optimism, because David has picked up a rock and thrown it at Goliath — and, as a matter of fact, two Davids. Frances has picked up a rock, thrown it at Facebook, and print journalism [does] too.

Mikey, do you share Aaron’s optimism about pulling out from the misinformation spiral?

Madison: Yes, of course I do. I am ultimately a very optimistic person. I do believe in the good of people. I believe in rehabilitation and people’s ability to learn and be better. Maybe it’s a bit naive at times, but yeah, I do. We have to hold on to that hope, or else things just seem so bleak.

You’re not on social media. Was there ever even the most fleeting sense, preparing for this film, that you were missing out?

Madison: It wasn’t a part of my preparation to be on Instagram or Facebook. It just wasn’t a part of things, and so I never indulged in that. Hearing Aaron talk about all of the dachshund videos that he was fed during his research process, there was a part of me that was like, I think I’m missing out on something there. But I’ve maintained the same feeling that me not being on social media is right, and I didn’t feel it was necessary for me to bring this character to life.

Aaron, Paramount produced your film “The Trial of the Chicago 7,” before selling it to Netflix during the height of COVID. Now, they’re under new leadership, and subsuming Warner Bros. [This interview was conducted after the deal was announced, but before it closed on Oct. 6.] Do you think it’ll be more challenging, in an age of consolidation, to make films that address political issues directly?

Sorkin: It will be more challenging with the consolidation of Warner Bros. and Paramount. There is one less movie studio making movies, and that’s not good. Making a movie shouldn’t be considered an act of courage. It shouldn’t take bravery. But you look around, and you see studios and networks making decisions out of fear.

The big reason that Frances, at the end of the movie, implores Congress to take action and pass some laws — and the reason why that’s extremely difficult to do — is that there are tech billionaires funding the campaigns of the people who need to make the laws. For that reason, it’s going to be difficult. It’s not going to be impossible.

Mikey, you’ve said that you wanted to retreat from the spotlight somewhat after the burst of excitement and activity around “Anora.” What does it feel like to be back with your first film since winning the Oscar?

Madison: I’m very happy to be promoting this film because I really want people to go and see it, and I really believe in the story and the message. So I’m hopeful that people do go and see the movie in theaters. This was the first project I felt compelled to do after “Anora” — it felt like something very different than anything I had done before, in terms of the tone of the character and wanting to work with Aaron. It just was something that felt right.

But in terms of the big picture, I don’t know if it’s helpful for me to think about things like that. I think I’ll get too in my head and overwhelmed. I just want to keep making movies with people I admire and doing work that feels important or compelling or moving in some way. I’m just focused on that part of it.

Aaron, what made Mikey the right fit for this role? It’s so obviously different from Ani in “Anora” — and others Mikey has played, too.

Sorkin: Number one. You’re not going to like this, OK?

Madison: [laughs] OK.

Sorkin: She’s a great actor. She has world-class skills as an actor. There are certain things that an actor can’t fake. An actor can’t act smart, and an actor can’t act funny. They have to bring those things with them. Mikey has both those clubs in her golf bag. But add to that the fact that Mikey moves through the world as if everyone is right-handed and she’s left-handed. It’s just a slight … I wish I could describe it, but it’s perfect for Frances. It’s very charming. It’s very endearing. And we understand that Frances is most comfortable at her keyboard, at her computer screen. Once she has to interact face-to-face with people, it’s something she needs to make an effort to do.

Given the subject matter, are you concerned that people will have preconceptions about the movie? The very point is that we live in such divided times, but, for that reason, I wonder if a movie like this can entertain the masses broadly.

Sorkin: People, with movies, they tend to — there are people who make up their minds without seeing it. But if you come, I bet you’ll be surprised.