Dining across the divide: ‘He thought extra spending on defence would be wasted. He’s probably got a point’

Voting record Tory until Thatcher, Labour until Blair, whom he viewed to be “another Thatcherite”; now votes between Labour and Green, and tactically “to keep Nigel Farage out of office”

Amuse bouche He was homeless as a teenager but later got BA and master’s degrees, and has since worked for charities, the oil industry and he was even a bingo caller for three years

Chris, 58, London

Occupation Works for a bank in a risk-and-control role

Voting record He’s flipped between Conservative and Lib Dem “for tactical reasons”

Amuse bouche He’s trying to visit all 92 professional football league grounds in the UK. He’s done just under 50

For starters

Carey I wasn’t nervous, I enjoy talking to people and, as my wife puts it, I’ve always got an opinion. Chris is a very amiable individual.

Chris I was a bit nervous. He’s had a radically different upbringing to me, so it was interesting to hear his life story.

Carey For starters I had monkfish skewers, then crab pasta with a glass of white wine, and for dessert I had an old fashioned with a nice cheesecake.

Chris I had tuna tartare to start, which was fantastic, then grilled monkfish and fries with a glass of white wine. For dessert I had panna cotta with an old fashioned.

The big beef

Carey Chris thinks we should increase defence spending, but there is currently waste within the military spend. Before I give somebody more money, I want to see they’re looking after the money they’ve already got.

Chris Given where we are geopolitically, increasing spending on defence is something we have to do. To me, it’s not a question of buying shiny new missiles, but defence against cyber-attacks.

Carey I would argue the value of big shiny toys like nuclear submarines is slightly degraded in the modern arena – and if you’re saving billions a year on not having big flashy toys, you don’t need an increase. But I also agree we should pick up the bill for cyberwarfare.

Chris I think he generally felt that more money would probably be wasted. He’s probably got a point, to be honest.

Sharing plate

Carey I think we should abolish the monarchy. For me, it’s about lack of transparency. There are more than 1,000 cases of the royals seeing acts of law before they were passed, with no information about what the act was like before it was given to them. We should remove the privilege of an individual to interfere in parliament. People argue that they bring in tourism, but France abolished their monarchy and the Palace of Versailles gets far more visitors than Buckingham Palace.

Chris I’m not a great lover of the monarchy, but what would you have instead? I look at the leaders of the current political parties and I’m not sure I necessarily want any of them as head of state.

For afters

Chris I think net zero as a target is completely the right thing to do, but I have no idea if the timing that we’ve set is achievable. I’m not against us using the oilfields in the North Sea – it would extend the timescale under which we could move to net zero, but that might seem more manageable for people.

Carey I agree with Chris that the likelihood of us achieving net zero as it stands is pretty low. But the big issue for me is: who pays? We have major players in this country, such as Amazon and Starbucks, that pay marginal or zero tax while paying low wages to a lot of people. Tax them and make them pay for it. Then it’s achievable.

Takeaways

Carey I always find it interesting to talk to people with opposing views, because it helps me build and question my own. The way that you learn is to say things to people who will challenge you.

Chris My takeaway is what a really interesting guy he was, how well-informed, and how he had turned his life around – I had absolute admiration for him. I do think mistrust of the government did underpin a lot of his views, and he’s probably right on that. He didn’t fundamentally change my opinions – but I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Additional reporting: Kitty Drake

Carey and Chris ate at Noisy Oyster in London, E1

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