Rafe Spall and Esther Smith talk Trying's future, life imitating art and whether Timothy Spall could make a cameo

In a case of life imitating art, Esther Smith and Rafe Spall – who play adoptive parents Nikki and Jason in Apple TV family comedy Trying – have had their first child together in real life. Now, as the on- and off-screen partners conclude their fifth series, we catch up with them to hear how the lines of fiction and reality have begun to blur.

How does it feel to be a couple in a comedy as well as real life? Has it changed the dynamic when you’re acting together?

Esther Smith: It’s funny to spend all day calling each other different names, then go home and be Esther and Rafe. We’re so tired that we don’t really get to debrief on the day. But we get to share a car home, so maybe it’s cheaper for the producers.

Rafe Spall: Because we were doing this show a long time before we became romantic partners, we already had a very familiar shorthand. It’s wonderful to hang out with Esther, who’s not only my favourite person but also one of my favourite actors, and then go home and have a martini together.

Do you take your characters home?

Rafe: We learn our lines together, but that’s it. A lot of the time, actors take their characters home just because they feel they should be doing something. Each to their own, but it’s not for me.

What are Nikki and Jason’s strengths as a couple?

Esther: They’re such a strong unit. They’re just trying to survive and be good people, and that really resonates. Life constantly throws things at you. No one can prepare you for what it means to become a parent – the sleep deprivation, the question of “Am I doing it right?”.

There have been some great guest turns this series: Celia Imrie as a hoarder and Colin Morgan who gets to perform a, let’s say, memorable musical moment.

Rafe: Celia was in one of my favourite shows, Better Things. In my experience, the best actors tend to be the nicest people, and I loved hanging out with her. That episode was a highlight.

Esther: When I got a preview of Colin’s song in our chemistry read, it was so funny and so ridiculous, not least as he’s actually a really good singer. It was pretty special.

Rafe, recently in RT your dad Timothy said that you’re “a good actor and good fella” but that you must have got that from your mum. Any response – and could you persuade him to cameo in Trying?

Rafe: I’m very lucky to have been brought up by two loving, kind, supportive people, who gave me the best start in life. I owe them everything. As for whether we could get him for the show – we should be so lucky!

Family comedy is famously a tough nut to crack. What’s Trying’s secret?

Esther: Even reading the scripts for the first time, I felt a real connection to these people. I wanted to spend time with them. It’s beautiful that people can watch it as a family, in whatever version of a family they might have.

Rafe: It’s family-friendly, without being too lightweight. I love shows that have something for everyone, like Modern Family, and so do my kids. [He has three children from his former marriage.] There is something definitely unifying about things that the family can enjoy together. Though they’ve not watched much of Trying – they find it strange because Jason’s so close to me. And series one opens with a sex scene, which no one wants to see their dad in!

How does it feel to have inhabited these characters for so long and over such a lengthy period after series four jumped forward by six years?

Rafe: Like I said, Jason is the closest character to myself that I’ve ever played. This is also the longest I’ve ever worked on one show, and I suppose just as I’ve grown in the last seven years, so has the character. Achieving Trying’s balance of humour and pathos is deceptively hard and that’s testament to Andy Walton, who’s written every episode – there are always four jokes on every page. Amid the high jinks it deals with weighty real-world issues. To quote the title, everyone’s trying to do their best.

Esther: You understand where these people have come from and what it took to get them to where they are now.

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We’re nearing the end of the fifth series – would you like to do more?

Rafe: We will usually talk about when we’re doing another series. We say, ‘If we’re lucky enough to get another one, then this could maybe happen…’ We will chat about ideas, but it’s up to Andy.

Can you envisage following Nikki and Jason into old age?

Rafe: Yes, I can see them retiring to the Maldives.

Esther: With their Zimmer frames! We always thought we’d be lucky to do three series, but I find it comforting to see into their world as a family unit. I can see myself playing Nikki for years and years to come. I hope that’s the case, but who knows?

Rafe, we’ll soon see you playing the prime minister in Steven Moffat’s Channel 4 drama Number 10. We’ve had six of them in a decade – was that fertile ground for research?

Rafe: I guess everyone’s getting a go now! I was lucky enough to have breakfast with a previous prime minister, who gave me a bit of insight. It’s a fascinating world.

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Series 5 of Trying concludes on Apple TV on Wednesday 26 August. You can sign up to Apple TV for a seven-day free trial. Series 1-3 are on BBC iPlayer.

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