Ethan Hawke Reveals What ‘The Lowdown’s Devastating Episode 6 Ending Really Means

Editor's note: The following contains spoilers for The Lowdown Season 2, Episode 6.

Summary

• In Season 2 of the FX series 'The Lowdown,' Lee Raybon absorbs punches to expose the truth as a Don Quixote who risks himself for the story.
• A quiet drive between father and son becomes devastating, an ordinary conversation turning into irrevocable loss.
• Lee and Ginger’s messy, unguarded connection feels real and is built on mutual recognition and quiet intimacy.

In Episode 6 of Season 2 of the FX series The Lowdown, entitled “Leaving and Coming Back,” Lee Raybon (Ethan Hawke) and his father (Tommy Lee Jones) finally get to a place where they can hash out some unspoken feelings in an attempt to mend old wounds. But since life never turns out the way you expect, the two men lose the opportunity to evolve into something new and Lee is left to process the sudden loss of someone who had a hand in shaping him, for better or worse.

Collider recently got the opportunity to chat with Hawke, who’s also an executive producer on the TV series created by Sterlin Harjo (Reservation Dogs), about Lee’s Season 2 journey. During the interview, he discussed how speaking truth to power sometimes leads to getting punched in the face, how Lee Raybon is like Don Quixote, that final scene in the van with Jones and why the actor’s best scene is yet to come, the relationship with Ginger, and how The Lowdown is just good storytelling.

’The Lowdown’s Lee Raybon Is Willing To Put Himself on the Line for a Good Story, Even When It Gets Him in Trouble

"It's Lee's strength that he can absorb all these punches."

COLLIDER: I love this show so much. I’m so happy it’s back for a second season, but it feels like Lee Raybon is just as much of a mess, if not more of a mess, this season than he was last season. Do you think he’ll ever stop getting himself into fights and getting beaten up? Because he definitely receives punches much better than he gives them.

ETHAN HAWKE: Yeah, he doesn’t deliver them very well. There’s some kind of larger metaphor at work there about telling truth to power, that when you tell truth to power, you’ve got to get punched in the face, or you have to be willing to. In a way, it’s Lee’s strength that he can absorb all these punches. It’s what he wants to be doing. Do I see a world? Yeah. I’ve seen some great documentaries and things about investigative journalists, and there’s a certain maturity they can get with age where they learn how to fight the fight better. But they’re often willing to put themselves on the line for a good story, and you kind of have to be. I think that’s his strength.

In Season 2, we’re told that we have not seen the best of Lee Raybon, which I don’t doubt. But how can we see the best of someone that can’t seem to get out of his own way? Does he even know what his best is?

HAWKE: That’s where he’s like Don Quixote. He believes that you haven’t seen the best of him because he feels he’s capable of greatness. I hope if we get a chance to keep telling this story, he’s the kind of person who could. Sometimes I think the world is populated with these angels every few counties – people who look after other people. It’s their job in the community and their place there to make sure the powerful are kept in check. I think that Lee is gearing up to hit somebody hard.

Lee finds himself surrounded by some very powerful people this season. He’s incredibly perceptive when it comes to recognizing corruption, but he’s not always particularly good at recognizing the danger that he’s in at any moment. Is there a part of Lee that actually enjoys provoking people who could destroy him?

HAWKE: I think he loves it. For him, it’s like a punk rocker who jumps into a mosh pit. That’s exactly where he wants to be. He knows the room is rockin’ if it’s really getting crazy.

And he seems to sometimes be surprised by the outcome, which I always find funny.

HAWKE: Maybe this is me projecting this, but I’m a perennial optimist. When things go badly, I’m so shocked, when the writing was clear on the walls to everybody but me, and I think that Lee is like that a little bit. But it doesn’t stop him from continuing to try. There isn’t any screwed up situation that he doesn’t feel he could make right if he just did the perfect thing.

Which makes him fun to watch because it’s more fun to watch him get into trouble than it is for us to actually get into our own trouble.

HAWKE: Yeah, exactly.

According to Ethan Hawke, Tommy Lee Jones’ Best Scene in ‘The Lowdown’ Season 2 Is Still To Come

"The poem isn't done, but it's different than you might think."

Image via FX Networks

In Episode 6, the final drive with Lee’s father is devastating, particularly because their last conversation is so ordinary and then suddenly there’s just no possibility of another one. Lee has spent so much time resisting his father’s attempts to reconnect. How did you approach the emotional weight of that scene, especially knowing everything that that Lee loses in that moment?

HAWKE: I just find it’s just one of the best pieces of writing and the way you phrased that question reveals something to me. The moments before the end of Episode 6 are so ordinary, but the possibility for healing is being revealed. And then, once a person dies, the poem is over and the possibility of what might have transpired between these two men is complete. Or maybe it isn’t. As you watch Episodes 7 and 8, I’m really proud of six, seven and eight. They’re my favorites of the series. They’re incredible. What’s that line? “The past doesn’t go anywhere. It’s not even the past.” I’ll tease you with this, Tommy Lee [Jones]’ best scene in the whole series is in Episode 8. It’s phenomenal. And so, the poem isn’t done, but it’s different than you might think.

I love that this show can just let Lee sit in the silence at the end of that episode. What other show could do that?

HAWKE: Would do that.

There’s just something so powerful about him just sitting in the silence in that moment.

HAWKE: Are you talking about when he’s driving the van?

Yeah.

HAWKE: It’s a powerful shot, really beautiful. But that’s what I love about working with (creator) Sterlin [Harjo]. I felt this way watching Reservation Dogs. It’s this weird hybrid between what makes really great TV and what makes really great cinema. He has an original voice. He pauses when you don’t think he’s going to pause. He goes fast when you don’t think he’s going to go fast. He’s irreverent in his storytelling. And working in this classical genre, which is noir, but he’s doing it in his own way. As an audience member, it keeps me on the edge of my seat.

What was the best thing about working with Tommy Lee Jones on that relationship? What did he bring to Lee Sr. that helped define Lee for you in an even deeper way?

HAWKE: Well, he’s so intelligent an actor. The depth of his intelligence radiates. He is a grifter, my father in the show. To be lied to by somebody that smart and that sensitive is really confusing. You can see why Lee has an obsession with telling the truth because he didn’t feel like anybody ever told him the truth. If you’re not sitting on a foundation bedrock of truth, with every step, it’s why we, as a community, need to live in the truth. It’s where the show and what Sterlin is driving it to be about gets into the deep end of the pool. It’s funny and it’s heartfelt and all those good things, but he’s talking about a very serious thing in our lives, about our relationship to the truth.

I loved getting to see the moments of kindness between Lee Sr. and his granddaughter. Obviously, there’s the tension between these two men, but there’s a different chance of him having a relationship with his granddaughter.

HAWKE: Yeah. And we see that in our own lives, don’t we? Just because our relationship with somebody is fraught and complicated and full of faultlines doesn’t mean that their relationship with everybody else is like that. We love this dualistic thinking of, “This person is bad, and this person is good,” as opposed to, “Wow, there’s a lot of good about this person and there’s a lot of bad about this person, and how can I hold both those truths and love this person?” People don’t have to be perfect to be worthy of love.

’The Lowdown’s Lee and Ginger Are Both a Hot Mess, but Their Relationship Is Dynamic and Real

"Probably knowing that it can't work lets his guard come down."

Image via FX Networks

I love that the intimacy between Lee and Ginger doesn’t arrive through some grand romantic gesture. It’s the quieter, stranger moments of him looking after her, the dish soap in his shower, their time together at the diner. What are these two recognizing in each other that allows them to let their guard down when they’ve spent so much of their lives protecting themselves?

HAWKE: Yeah, that’s a great question. One part of it probably is the impossibility of the situation. Lee’s picking probably the most problematic person for him to fall in love with, to fall in love with. Probably knowing that it can’t work lets his guard come down. We’re so complicated like that as people. But I also think they recognize each other. They’re both a hot mess and they’re both unjudgmental. That’s their superpower, being able to look deeply into somebody. Betty [Gilpin] did a great job of making sure that her character was as multi-dimensional as mine, and that makes the relationship extremely dynamic and real.

I love the show. I loved this season. I love that this is just a show about humanity. There’s something just so special that we can still have that on TV. So, thank you.

HAWKE: It’s our pleasure. That’s exactly what I love about it, too. Even the bad guys have their reasons, and even the good guys have faults. It’s very good storytelling that way.

The Lowdown airs on FX and is available to stream on Hulu.