Two different bullet trains, signal systems can’t run in same corridor: JTTRI’s Shukuri

In an interview with The Indian Express on the sidelines of the Kautilya Economic Conclave earlier this month, Shukuri said ‘crash avoidance’ is absolutely paramount when it comes to high-speed rail systems and passengers should be able to travel without worrying about safety or reliability. Edited excerpts:

In February, India announced seven more high-speed rail projects. What does that mean for the collaboration between India and Japan, with the ongoing project set to open next year?

Yes, I am aware of the announcement. From the initial stages itself we were told that India is looking at developing several high-speed rail corridors in the future and that the first one in the series will be the Mumbai-Ahmedabad project.

With regard to India starting the Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor in 2027 using India made rolling stock, I understand there had always been this plan of first commissioning the line partially only, what is sometimes called the priority section. The Japanese side has extended full co-operation.

So, what happens to Japanese rolling stock and signalling systems? I understand that discussions are ongoing. Furthermore, I would like to draw your attention to the summit-level meeting between Prime Minister Takaichi and Prime Minister Modi in July. The outcome of that meeting was a joint declaration, where it specifically mentions the introduction of E10 series. This is under development in Japan and will be the latest form of bullet train rolling stock and will be introduced in the early 2030s.

The IHRA has from the beginning put a lot of emphasis that just building the high-speed rail is not sufficient to really enjoy the benefits. What is extremely important is station area development and the area along the rail. What is very pleasing for us is that India has been aware of the importance of the development as well and I understand that a lot of construction is happening for station area development.

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A former minister of Japan, Hideki Makihara, said on social media earlier this year that the reasons for the delays in the Indian bullet train project were because of problems on the Indian side.

I have personally not read the former minister’s exact comments, so I would like to refrain from commenting on it.

But let’s look at the project, which was agreed upon between Prime Minister Modi and Prime Minister Abe way back in December 2015. IHRA was established in 2014 and it is from then on that we have been visiting India and discussing the high-speed rail project with possible stakeholders. So, before it was even announced by the prime ministers, we have been involved with this project.

I don’t think there has been a delay really, because you have to look at the size of the project: it is a 500-kilometre-long alignment, a high-speed rail, being done for the first time in India. All of this together, it is a massive project and not one which is expected to be wrapped up and completed in a matter of just a few years, it is just not possible, let us understand that very, very clearly.

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We had to also deal with Covid, which came with its disruptions and it took time to get back on track. I feel that, despite all of that, this project is proceeding very strongly.

The first high-speed rail in Japan was constructed in 1964, which means Japan has 62 years of experience constructing and operating high-speed rail. Let’s say today, Japan decides to make a high-speed rail track of 500 km, it’s not possible to complete it in 10 years. Even in today’s Japan, if you want to set up a high-speed track 500 km long, it will not be completed in 10 years.

We also have to remember that initially, when any project starts, there are many unforeseen problems — I know that there was a delay in land acquisition, for example. Given all of that, the project is making good progress.

India is commissioning the priority section using domestically made bullet trains. What is your view?

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This is the outcome of certain schedules that India is very conscious of and wants to prioritise and that is absolutely fine. But what is most important is that you have to ensure the operation is safe and reliable. You have to ensure that passengers get on to the train and they know that they are covering 500 km in two hours, they are not worried about safety or reliability.

In order to achieve that…it is not only about procurement of rolling stock and signalling system, it is also about making sure that training of the people is in place on time, they have the requisite skill-set, technical know-how, as well as enough trials are done to get a full performance of the final commissioned train. In that, Japanese technology and experience will count for a lot.

There is a key message, as a representative of IHRA, that I always convey: when you are running a high-speed rail, one thing which is absolutely necessary is crash avoidance – we must not crash. This means that you have to ensure you build a system that is 100% safe.

Another thing we have been trying to emphasise is the Total Systems Approach: any railway line is built up of the civil works, the tracks, the signalling, the rolling stock. On top of that, we have a layer of maintenance, skilled people, as well as management. This entire thing needs to be looked at as one single system. If the final objective is to ensure that your train is running at extremely high speeds in a safe and reliable manner, you cannot achieve it unless you have the total system in place.

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I think the bullet train must be looked at as a very advanced system which contains each one of these components and each of them is required to have the system that everybody expects. So, I would only want India to make sure that it’s only the beginning, the priority section, but there is much to be done and that the Total Systems Approach is really necessary.

Is there any country which runs a high-speed rail system with two different rolling stocks and signalling systems in one corridor? Is this safe?

That’s a very important question-cum-observation. In my opinion, if there is a high-speed train which is running on one line a mixture of two different systems – there has been no such prior case. Whether it can run safely or not is something that needs to be done once to prove it.

In my view, if you are looking at this kind of situation where there is any kind of uncertainty and we have two different systems, then to have a rolling stock running at 300 km per hour with people in it, is not possible, in my view.

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At the end of the day, how do we know that a system is safe? It has to be proven. Eventually, I think, one of those systems will need to be adopted; you can’t have both the systems running. Which one it’s going to be, it’s not my position to comment. It depends upon the outcome of discussions between the two directly related parties as well as the governments of India and Japan.

China’s high-speed rail network length has exceeded 50,000 km. But questions have been raised about the viability of their rail network.

If China has decided to have 50,000 km as against Japan, who will very soon have 4,000 km, it is really the government’s policy decision what is the need for their country and what they need it for.

The use of ethanol blended fuel has been a big debate in India over the last year. Is Japan’s target of 20% blending by 2040 a conscious decision?

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Unfortunately, I do not have accurate information on how this policy was formulated.

However, if I were to present to you the big picture, Japan has set a target of achieving net zero by 2050 and it has made several policy decisions to achieve that target. The whole idea is that you take several steps in different areas to get to the final goal of net zero and ethanol mixing will be one of them. What I understand is that Japan’s policy has been made in such a way that the rollout of those changes is realistic to the extent possible.

Are there any concerns among the people of Japan regarding the shift to 10% and 20% over the next couple of decades, in terms of the impact on vehicles?

We don’t hear much about concerns in the public regarding ethanol mixing. When it comes to consumer complaints with regard to cars, there is nothing as such. Even if we take the example of the recent rise in crude oil prices, the government has taken proactive steps and is providing subsidies so that they can control the extreme rise in petrol prices.

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That said, going back to the net zero target, there is definitely a push towards EVs and hybrid vehicles.