‘Outlander: Blood of My Blood’ Showrunner Breaks Down Those Brutal Episode 5 Deaths and the Twist You Won’t See Coming

Editor's note: The following contains major spoilers for Outlander: Blood of My Blood Season 2, Episode 5.

Summary

• In Episode 5 of 'Outlander: Blood of My Blood' Season 2, Julia's slow-burn hostage standoff with Seema ends when Julia is forced to take action.
• Ellen and Grace must outwit MacKinney's vengeful son, negotiating for their lives.
• Brian and Henry share a silent nod across battle lines before Brian and Murtagh head off to rescue Dougal.

In Episode 205 of the Starz series Outlander: Blood of My Blood, entitled “Forgive Me, Father,” the Battle of Sheriffmuir got bloody on both sides while Ellen MacKenzie (Harriet Slater) and Julia Beauchamp (Hermione Corfield) faced emotional turning points in their own lives. Distraught over wanting to be with but not being able to have Henry (Jeremy Irvine), Seema (Lauren McQueen) held Julia hostage, threatening her son and pushing her to a limit where she had to take action. Meanwhile, Ellen had to face off with Robert MacKinney (Macleod Stephen), a son hellbent on revenge for the killing of his father, and try to negotiate for her life. And all of this was going on while the battlefield was being soaked with Loyalist and Jacobite blood, putting Brian (Jamie Roy) and Henry on opposite sides.

After screening the episode, Collider got the opportunity to chat with showrunner Matthew B. Roberts about weaving four stories about different types of battles together. During the interview, he discussed the slow burn of Julia and Seema’s confrontation, what finally pushed Julia to snap, forcing Ellen and Grace (Ruby Fubara) to face off with MacKinney’s son, Jocasta’s (Sadhbh Malin) own personal struggle, Brian and Henry on opposite sides on the battlefield, what exactly happened with Ellen, and Brian and Murtagh (Rory Alexander) going off to rescue Dougal (Sam Retford).

The ‘Outlander: Blood of My Blood’ Season 2 Face-Off Between Julia and Seema Was Like a One-Act Play

"It really was brilliant to watch."

Image via Starz

COLLIDER: There’s something so interesting about the interplay between Seema and Julia in Episode 5. That situation is particularly tricky because clearly Seema is not mentally stable, which also makes her unpredictable. Why did you want to spend so much time with the two of them and have them really talk out what happened and get into their feelings?

MATTHEW B. ROBERTS: If it happened too quickly, it wouldn’t resonate. There wouldn’t be any impact. When we talked about Seema, there’s a line between what we would call mentally unstable and just a person who’s never had any feelings before. She’s grown up in a place where she’s been used, constantly, her whole life. The one person that showed her any amount of caring and compassion and sympathy, she poured all her feelings into that person, and it was the wrong person. He didn’t reciprocate. So, I think that’s what threw her over the edge, and we definitely wanted to show that. Lauren [McQueen] is so talented. Every nuance is there. It just became a one-act play between the two of them in a closed room. It really was brilliant to watch. There was so much great footage to cut through. Emer Conroy, who directed it, did such a fantastic job of letting it breathe.

We really get to see Seema process everything. She obviously went into this not knowing what the outcome of this situation was going to be and it’s interesting to hear her admit that she’s delaying doing anything to Julia because she’s trying to think about how to do it in a way that Henry will forgive her. She clearly has some sense that what she’s doing is wrong. Was there just no way that Julia was ever going to be able to get through to her? Did you have conversations about how far Seema would have to push Julia?

ROBERTS: That was the slow burn. Over the course of this period, she can see that it’s a work in progress and she doesn’t know how to end it. She almost doesn’t want to do what she’s threatening to do. If she can just figure out how this person can leave, then she can have Henry. And Julia is doing the same thing, thinking, “Hey, I can talk her out of it. I can talk her out of it.” And then, finally, it gets to that moment where Seema is like, “Oh, wait, when he thought you were dead, he came to me.” That’s the trigger, and then Julia goes, “There’s only one way to end this.”

Julia keeps trying to change tactics until she realizes that nothing will work. What was it like to see that moment when Julia finally takes Seema’s life with her bare hands?

ROBERTS: They worked through it quite a bit during filming. I think they did a great job. It’s very emotional. It’s personal. We didn’t want it to be, “Grab the knife and stab her.” We wanted it to be super personal and take a bit of time for Julia. As we go, you’ll see the effects of that. The closeness of how it created this cell that closed in and closed in also added to the pressure of it. We definitely wanted them to be intimate in this moment and not just a quick death because Julia had to process what was happening. She was saving her own life. She wanted to get out of that room to find her child. The way Seema talks about it with that flippant remark about, “He was there, and then he wasn’t,” is chilling to a mother. It was beautifully played, all around.

In Episode 5 of ‘Outlander: Blood of My Blood’ Season 2, the Personal Battles Are As Important as the Ongoing War

"We have a lot of battles."

Having Ellen and Grace face off with MacKinney’s son felt like a parallel struggle to what was happening between Julia and Seema, especially with Ellen also trying to negotiate her way out of what was going on. Was that something you intentionally thought about balancing?

ROBERTS: Yes. Over the course of all of Outlander and now Blood of My Blood, we have a lot of battles. There’s a lot of war, there’s a lot of going to war, and there’s a lot of preparing for war. Sometimes in those, the other battles get lost – the personal battles and the things that happen behind the scenes. That’s why we cut back and forth between those four stories – because we go back to Leoch quite a bit too and show what they’re struggling with. You see Jocasta hoping that her husband doesn’t come back. That’s her own personal battle. It’s very complex, the way Sadhbh [Malin] played that. You don’t want to wish for someone’s death, but you don’t want that person in your life anymore. She’s so trapped in that period that that’s the only way to get out.

There are those interpersonal battles, but we also didn’t want to leave that moment. We see [Robert MacKinney] run off in Episode 3. Any fan would go, “Hey, something is going to happen there. He might come back.” So, to bring them back, you got to watch Ellen use totally different skills than she used in Episode 3. She had to negotiate. She had to play his game. She sees the weakness in him, and she just keeps picking at that weakness. She tries to tell him, “Your weakness isn’t a weakness, it’s a strength.” And right when he realizes that, it’s too late.

What can you say about what’s next with that? We get to the end of that moment where he ends up dead and then Ellen ends up kidnaped and carried off by somebody else, after all of that. Where is that going?

ROBERTS: When you see it, it’s a twist that will make perfect sense. It will be heartbreaking. It will have really tender moments. I don’t want to give too much away. I’m really excited for everybody to see it. But there’s a twist you probably won’t see coming and a really cool resolution to it, in my book.

Two of my favorite moments in the episode are the scene between Brian and Henry when they see each other across the battlefield and nod to each other. And then, there’s the moment between Brian and Murtaugh when Brian asks Murtaugh to protect Ellen and their child if he doesn’t make it through the battle. How did those moments come about?

ROBERTS: Emer and I have a lovely shorthand now. I can say how important a moment is, and she gives it the time. That’s what the key is. You give the performers enough time to really dig into those subtleties. We wanted those connections. Murtaugh and Brian, in that conversation, they’re thinking about the big picture. They’re looking at the battlefield. They’re ranging the cannons, so they know. That was very important to the scene. They had to be looking at their impending deaths. They’re both talking about, “I would rather be here with you than anybody.” Obviously, they would have loved to have been with their loves, but it wouldn’t be anybody but them. That’s who they trust. Murtaugh says, “If you don’t make it, I’ll protect your family for the rest of my life,” and you believe it. Outlander people who know the books and the other show know it. If you’ve never read the books and seen the show, you would go, “Man, these guys have a great bond.” But if you have, you know that that bond is carried on forever.

In comparison, I loved that moment with Brian and Henry on opposite sides of the war, sharing their moment together.

ROBERTS: Yeah. There are multiple battles that happen in Outlander, in the books, that we didn’t do, just because there was no one on the other side. To make these moments impactful, you want to have someone there. With Culloden, Black Jack Randall was on the other side and everybody knew it, and then it came to a head. With this one, we knew that they were going to meet, and what would you do if you met someone who you really didn’t want to kill and they were on the other side? That’s why we let that moment linger. And it’s so beautiful how the horse cuts through, and then they both disappear and you know they go off to do their duty, but they’re not going to fight each other.

Brian and Murtaugh Have To Rescue Dougal in Episode 6 of ‘Outlander: Blood of My Blood’ Season 2

"You probably know that Dougal gets rescued because he’s alive in Outlander, but it’s how they go about doing it that’s exciting and fun."

Image via Starz

At the end of the episode, we know that Brian and Murtaugh have decided to go off and save Dougal. What can you say to tease what’s coming for that aspect of the story?

ROBERTS: I can say that there’s some fun stuff coming up in the rescue. We have some people coming up that folks will recognize in the next few episodes. People who have read the books and seen Outlander will really jump out of their seats or gasp – I don’t know what everybody does. I think it’s going to be quite surprising when they see them. You probably know that Dougal gets rescued because he’s alive in Outlander, but it’s how they go about doing it that’s exciting and fun. You can see at the end where Murtaugh is a little put out. He’s like, “I’m sure it’s Ellen.” And Brian is like, “Yeah, Ellen made me promise and I’ve got to do it because I’m a man of my word.” Jamie [Roy] and Rory [Alexander] have a great load of chemistry, the way they banter off each other. Brian is the straight man. He plays it more straight, and those moments add a little bit of gallows humor to the show. I love putting them on screen together and watching the chemistry, and we’ll see more of that.

Outlander: Blood of My Blood airs on Starz.