From Chainsaw Man to A Silent Voice, Music Composer kensuke ushio
The composer behind anime hits like Chainsaw Man, A Silent Voice, DAN DA DAN, DEVILMAN crybaby, The Dangers in My Heart, and many more, kensuke ushio a.k.a. agraph, sat down with us to talk about his craft and process. He also dived deep into how he compiled the soundtrack for Chainsaw Man – The Movie: Reze Arc and navigates the music business.
Note: The transcription below has been edited for grammar and readability.
kensuke ushio: Hello! I'm kensuke ushio, a composer, especially for the Japanese animation industry. My famous work is really hard to say myself, but maybe Chainsaw Man: Reze Arc, DAN DA DAN, or A Silent Voice.
Jacki Jing (ANN): We could go on and on! DEVILMAN crybaby, A Silent Voice. How you're like, “It's weird me saying it?” You're a legend, dude!
Ushio: No, I forgot all those things!
I'm really excited to chat with you, though! My first question for you is, when does an anime production even come to you and reach out to you? What is that process like? Is it different every time?
Ushio: Yeah! Sometimes I get projects from my director friend. It's very nice because we have a relationship already.
They just text you?
Ushio: Yeah, sometimes. The director of A Silent Voice, Naoko Yamada-san. She's my buddy. So I always go grab a beer with her and chat about our new projects. That's very comfortable for me.
Okay, so you are just like the most connected, coolest person ever.
Ushio: I don't think so! People are always having fun with buddies. I believe that's the same here. People are always networking. That really works the same in Japan.
Did you meet each other in the industry?
Ushio: Yes. For example, Yamada is from Kyoto. It's very different, very far from Tokyo. I am originally from Tokyo, so we met up in Tokyo after we became professionals.
Really, it just sounds like your friends just hit you up and they're like, “Hey, we need music for this.”
Ushio: “Okay, let's go grab a beer!” Yeah, that's it!
So how do you decide whether you want to work on a project or not? Do you ever say no, or does something need to really pull you into it?
Ushio: If I'm interested in the storyboard, a character, or the person who directed it—mostly when I refuse a project, it depends on my schedule. Fortunately, I have so many projects. So unfortunately, if there's no room in my schedule, I always refuse. That's it.
Okay. So it's basically like if there's not a schedule conflict, you're down.
Ushio: Yes.
So what was interesting to me is that you said that sometimes you see a visual or a character and you're pulled in. Does anything come to mind? Do you remember when that happened?
Ushio: Yeah, it's very important for me—especially the color; the color scheme has an effect on my music. So when I start a project, I always develop the movie concept. What is this film? What is this series? So I read the script many times and look at some settings or pilot films. I always try to get the core of the story.
So did you see an image from Chainsaw Man?
Ushio: Yeah.
What was it?
Ushio: I read the original comics back in maybe 2018 or something. I feel like it's just very messed up; complete chaos comes to mind, and the body is talking about how to kill Denji. It's really chaotic. So the chaos is the main concept of the Chainsaw Man music. So when I did the season one music, I used AI tools to create it. And of course, not 100% AI composing nowadays. Nowadays, it's just a tool for making chainsaw noise. Making many chainsaw sounds is really difficult using traditional methods. So I used AI to make several chainsaw noises, and I mixed them to my own rhythm. So those kinds of noises are uncontrollable for me. So it's totally—it happened to be some kind of chaotic and messed-up sound. That is the concept of Chainsaw Man. That's the way I always make the soundtrack for films or series.
Okay, so basically, you're drawn to chaos.
Ushio: Yes!
I got it! So how do you even start building music for these amazing projects? Do you just hear something in your mind and you start humming? Or do you hear them talking? How do you start to get the wheels turning?
Ushio: It's really difficult. So as I said earlier, I always start with a concept. It's really heavily connected to the film or series itself. So I always spend a lot of time making the concept itself, rather than composing. If I nail the concept, I can make tracks super easily because I always refer back to it. If I lose my mind, I ask: which melody is good for this series, which is called progression, and which is good for this film? I always refer to the concept. If the chaos is a concept, I'd like to choose a more chaotic one. The same things make a struggle; make a film.
So you say, “Okay, I'm digging Chainsaw Man and I want chaotic music,” right? Where do you go from there? Chaos covers so much, right?
Ushio: That's my authority! So it's a really artistic thing I cannot explain in language, but I have studied some modern experimental music in university. My taste is more—let's say John Cage things, more Don Felder things. It's like modern 20th-century experimental composers. I love them because they are really good composers, and simultaneously they are also good music philosophers. They thought a lot about the music. That's the way I always make music. So the chaos is here. After that, some kind of—let's say, the circuits in my brain are already created by the many legendary composers' lessons. So if I input those kinds of concepts into my brain, the music comes out automatically.
So basically what you're saying is you're like, “Okay, I have this concept, and then I studied all these different composers and artists, and then it's like a kind of pot and just mixing it all up?”
Ushio: Yeah! I always say I'm like a coffee filter. Which coffee beans do you want, Chainsaw Man beans, or some A Silent Voice beans? Let's put them into my filter and pour the hot water! Different coffee is coming. This is my soundtrack.
Okay, that was so cool. I love that. Okay, I wanted to read you some numbers: “Smells Blood” from the DEVILMAN crybaby original soundtrack has racked up over 76 million streams.
Ushio: 76 million?!
76 million streams.
Ushio: Oh my god. Where's my money? [laughs]
[laughs] Also, “in the pool” and “in the sea” were legendary songs. I don't know if you saw—they were all over TikTok, all over the internet. How does it feel to see that these songs had such a big impact?
Ushio: I had no idea! Actually, I'm really happy to hear that. But I'm really happy to be a part of the film, part of the series, part of some story. So if I got really good numbers with my tracks, it's not my success; it's the success of the film or the project. So I'm really happy that people enjoy my tracks, but I don't care about that.
So you don't care about 76 million streams?!
Ushio: I have no idea about that! And actually, it's really hard to say this, but I am too busy to feel that.
Were any of the songs really difficult for you? Do you remember when you were like, “I'm not getting this one,” or you were kind of hitting a block for Chainsaw Man?
Ushio: Actually, the same answer! I have already created the concept, so there's no block or easy track. But technically, “in the pool,” of course, has maybe an orchestra of over 40 people to manage, which is really complex. We need to book the studio and manage the orchestra players' schedule. It's really hard to do, hard to achieve, but composing is the same because of the concept.
So basically, you're just so good that it just comes easily to you.
Ushio: Thank you so much!
Basically, what you're saying is that you just keep on referring to the central concept that you guys came up with in the beginning. And if you're running into a problem, let's go back to that main point, right? But hearing you say some aren't difficult and some aren't easy is kind of interesting. It sounds like you guys have a really strong core base from the beginning.
Ushio: It's really important for me.
Is there a way that you develop that core concept? Do you do mood boards? How do you create that concept you keep on referring to? Or is that tough to answer? Or is it all in here?
Ushio: I think so. If I'm wrong, I'm so sorry, but I always go to museums. I always read the book—not the musical one. I open my mind to other kinds of culture. It's very inspiring. It's a very collaborative thing. I always talk to the directors afterward. I need some deep conversation with a director. And as I said, I'm always stuck in the museum for just two or three hours in front of one picture, thinking about the concept. Drawing and painting are really important to me.
Oh, wow. Okay.
Ushio: I arrived in LA three days early. I went to MOCA, the Museum of Contemporary Art. I was stuck in front of Rothko for three, four hours. It's really inspiring and thought next—NDA things. It's really inspiring for me. After that, I was always chatting with the directors and the producers. It's really important for me.
Okay, so I just want to make sure I'm following. Basically, you're saying that when it comes to creating a concept, you're constantly looking for things to stimulate your mind, whether it's going to a museum or looking at visual art. You're constantly just trying to find ways to just make sure it's all in here.
Ushio: I always borrow the structure of the art. When you see the Rothko—I have no idea if this is correct or not —but when I see the Rothko, I feel like it is a color itself, not a shape, for me. So if it became musical things, it might be some kind of sound itself, not the melody. So when I compose the actual track for Chainsaw Man, I make the sound only, not the melody, just the sound—the chaotic sound itself. And the same structure to Rothko's painting, it became some kind of chaotic track. I borrow Rothko's structure for the music. It's really inspiring and completely different from the other work. That's really nice for me.
Okay, so now I want to know what art influenced Chainsaw Man. Or maybe composers too—or artists. So you're talking about everything that goes into making that concept. So what did Chainsaw Man's mood board look like?
Ushio: Actually, abstract painting, like Jackson Pollock, is a very inspiring source for Chainsaw Man, I believe. And some kind of noise, chaos, those kinds of concepts are really inspiring for Chainsaw Man. Those are very technical terms. So let me explain in Japanese: [in Japanese, translated by David Neptune] Noise is a really interesting thing, because it has a spectrum of all sounds, and they're all equal in that noise. [back in English] [sighs] It's really hard to explain even in Japanese. [back in Japanese] It's hard to explain, but the depth of the data is constant, and so, when it's chopped up, you can get certain sounds out of it. [back in English] Actually, I have no idea what I'm talking about [laughs].
[laughs] Do studios ever put restrictions on you, or do they let you do whatever you want?
Ushio: Ah, you mean the animation studios?
Yes.
Ushio: Not so much. Fortunately, I started my career as a solo artist, and I stepped into this industry. First of all, people think, “Oh, the artist is coming!” So people think, “We cannot say no to this track!”
So what you're saying is you're so cool because you're an artist!
Ushio: [dramatically] I'm an artist! I'm from Sony Music, all right?!
So you just walk in with that swagger?
Ushio: After that, I always contribute 100% to the film. I direct with the team, not the snobby artist. So after that, people really think, "Ah, Ushio always—Ushio is not the—” I'm sorry, this is a really bad term, but “He doesn't have any commercial thoughts about the animation. He really, really loves the animation project and he really loves this project. He really thinks about this, the people!” They happened to start to think of me like that. So after that, communication is very smooth. So basically, I have no nos from the animation studio.
They're like, “Do what you want.”
Ushio: Yeah! It's really cool!
That is amazing! Yeah, you're just that cool! This is another question from our staff: You did a very synthy, excessively '80s-style DEVILMAN crybaby soundtrack. And then you did something more avant-garde with Liz and the Bluebird, both in the same year. So what was it like to do those two soundtracks in the same year, but with very different sounds?
Ushio: As I said earlier, the coffee bean is different. A Silent Voice is more closeness or more close-up human drama. And DEVILMAN crybaby is a more brutal one. It's a completely different coffee bean. So I put it in my filter; the coffee tastes completely different. It's natural for me.
I love this coffee analogy.
Ushio: It's really understandable!
Different anime, different type of coffee! Dark roast, then you have blonde coffee, a latte—it's crazy. Here's another question from our staff: John Cage and Morton Feldman were huge influences on you when you composed the score for Liz and the Bluebird. How have you been able to channel their influences since, and what are other big influences and favorite artists? I don't know if you've percolated on it enough, but who are all your favorites?
Ushio: I might have both sides. Electronic dance music and more experimental music, like John Cage or something. I have a heavy influence from the experimental side, John Cage. This project was about John Cage's music. So I'm not really a good student, but I am heavily inspired by John Cage, Morton Feldman, and, of course, Steve Reich from the United States. I'm heavily inspired by those kinds of music, and let me add some Chelsea. It's spectral music in Europe, modern music. It's really more ambient-sounding, microtonal, ambient-sounding, or classical music. It's really modern. And in dance music, then I'm heavily inspired by Aphex Twin, or some kind of Cornwall music, like the rhythm bass or some kind of IDM. Recently, we call it IDM, Intelligent Dance Music.
I didn't even know that existed! Okay, I got to get with the program here.
Ushio: Yeah, I'm heavily inspired by that. And back in the '90s, the Japanese underground dance scene was heavily connected with the German one. So late '90s music, like DJ Hell, WestBam—so many German DJs, German underground techno musicians.
Who would you say are your top three favorite artists? If you had to go on an island and could only pick three artists to listen to, who would it be?
Ushio: From both sides?
From anything!
Ushio: Minimal music is always the same, so it's very hard to bring to the island. But you said all-time best?
All-time best.
Ushio: Yuichi Sakamoto. He's a Japanese composer who unfortunately passed away three years ago. Ryuichi Sakamoto covers experimental music. And I need dance music. Clark from the UK, Warp Records. And one more thing… Johann Sebastian Bach.
Oh wow, okay! And then what was the one in the middle?
Ushio: Clark is a UK artist. Back in the '90s and 2000s, he was an experimental electronic musician, but he also scored music with an orchestra and a real piano. That was great. And yeah, I love him!
All right, I'm learning about music from you. This is super neat! I had to ask you this: Like Liz and the Bluebird, Journal with Witch deals with two girls with different personalities coming together to try to understand each other. Did that come to mind when composing the soundtrack for Witch? And if so, what did you do musically to help bring out this theme?
Ushio: That's very difficult. It looks like a very similar project, but completely different. What's the difference? …I never thought about that.
Or was it really similar? Like, did you pull a lot from—
Ushio: I don't think so. It looks like they're very similar, but for me it's a completely different project. Why? …I have no idea. I will keep thinking until the second time. Sorry.
You guys hear that? We're going to have a part two! I can't wait! What do you want people to take away from your music?
Ushio: Actually, to be honest, nothing. Feel free. It's okay. And as I said earlier, I am really happy to be a part of the film, not my music. Please feel something from the movie, not my music. It's okay. My ideal soundtrack is that if I take the music off the movie, the music disappears. This is my ideal soundtrack. For me, music, sound effects, dialogue, and the film itself—that's completely packaged. If I take the soundtrack, it should disappear. I'm a part of the film. So, to be honest, I'm so sorry; please take nothing from my music. I'm sorry, Milan Records. You guys have a business in that. I know, I'm so sorry. But I'm really happy that so many people listen to my music as part of their daily life or as their soundtrack. That's really happy for me.
That was a great answer! Basically, you want people to watch the movie, and they're just so transported that they don't even know that they're listening to music. It's like they're in that world.
Ushio: Yeah. I always make the concept. It means I always go inside the film itself. So when I compose, I'm a part of the world. Jackson Pollock, the famous painter in the mid-20th century in the United States, said that when I'm in the paint, I have no idea about the paint. It's the same with music. When I'm in the world, I have no idea about music. That's a really good thing for me.
I wanted to play a little game. So for Chainsaw Man, you said the word is chaos. Yes. So for A Silent Voice, the word is—
Ushio: Practice. Practice or principle to live in this beautiful world.
Oh my gosh, you're gonna make me cry. Okay, that's a great answer. What about for DEVILMAN crybaby?
Ushio: Disaster! [laughs]
[laughs] That one came to you easily! Okay, what about Journal with Witch?
Ushio: Compromise to live with each other. There's a lot of friction, maybe. Our world is full of friction. But we need to find some kind of compromise. I love compromise. Yes, compromise.
What about for Liz and the Bluebird?
Ushio: Ah, so tough. Coprime. The prime number. It's math.
Okay, your mind is blowing my mind right now. I like your concept words. Okay, that was my last question. I just wanted you to see that, like, how much people loved your music. And so there was this really cool piano cover, and I just wanted to get your reaction to it:
@levvy027 THIS MOVIE BRO 😭😭😭😭 #chainsawman #piano #pianocover #reze #inthepool ♬ original sound - levvy!
Ushio: Oh, lovely! Oh my God, so nice! I really love the open lead piano. Yeah, it's really sounding—
This got like 3 million views.
Ushio: Oh my God!
I'm getting chills just listening to it.
Ushio: Yeah, it's really nice. I'm really happy to hear that! Thank you so much!
How does it feel to see that there are countless videos like that?
Ushio: Actually, I'm just a composer, and I'm not a pianist, so I cannot play like this. Please teach me! You're hired as a teacher!
Okay, I'm going to find this person. We'll talk to Sony.
Ushio: We're gonna make it happen.
Thank you so much! You're awesome!
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