Time season three: Jimmy McGovern and David Tennant on tackling young offenders

The third series of Time began with the thought that, having done the male and female estates in the first two series, we now had to do young offenders. But we had no story whatsoever. Then I came across a paragraph from our researchers about a mother who went into a young offender institution to talk to her son, whom she hadn’t seen since he was four or five. She couldn’t speak English and he couldn’t speak her language, which, in our story, is Swahili. I just thought that was gold dust and everything else fell into place, with Siobhan Finneran as the new prison chaplain and David Tennant and Daniel Ryan the veteran prison guards.

We’ve also got boys on remand for a charge of murder and another who has killed his brother, but each of the crimes is relatable in some sense. They are situations where things just got out of hand. I write them like that because I want to understand them myself. I don’t think I could kill in pursuit of gain, but I’m sure I could kill in the heat of the moment.

Overall, the series revolves around the real system in place in institutions like this of “keep-aparts” – where boys from certain postcodes can’t mix with boys from other postcodes, because it is reckoned that will maintain order and discipline. When the boys do meet up, they fight, but that’s because they’re boys, they’re almost programmed that way. But you still cannot keep them apart in this way – it’s madness. There’s no training or education, they’re certainly not improving themselves, so you’ve got to allow them to associate.

There’s very little altruism involved with these stories. I do them because I love doing them, although I think this will be the last Time. I have said that many a time before, though, because these are also stories I feel bound to tell.

‘I was born Catholic, so I know a lot about guilt and shame’

Siobhan Finneran plays Marie-Louise

Did you know that Jimmy wanted to bring you back for another series of Time?

Not at all. But who doesn’t want to work on a McGovern script? They’re raw, but written with real heart and care, so it was a pretty big yes. I’m thrilled to bits.

Where do we find Marie-Louise in series three?

She’s a mess, questioning her faith because she’s heartbroken. Her relationship with a priest has been discovered and broken up by the bishop, who tells her off like she’s a naughty kid – but that faith is ingrained. It’s very difficult for her to suddenly go, “I’m not going to believe after 50-odd years.” She knows these kids are in much more need of help than she is. The prison officers are there to keep them quiet, make sure they don’t misbehave, but Marie-Louise has a different attitude, asking, “What can we do to help them not reoffend?” So they – and Bailey, who she’s determined to crack even though he has no time for her at all – are a great distraction from her own troubles.

Filming in prison was oppressive – and one of the coldest places I’ve been in my life

Are you a believer?

No, but I was born Catholic, so I know a lot about Catholic guilt and shame! It upsets my parents and my aunt and uncle, who all say things like, “Oh, it’s not too late [to join an order].” That calling’s got to be quite loud, so I think I might have missed that boat…

What do you most admire about the character of Marie-Louise?

I’m human and probably very judgemental. If somebody was to tell me their son had gone to prison, I’d think, like most people, “What did you do wrong?” Marie-Louise wouldn’t do that. She could be dealing with a murderer, a rapist, somebody who’s nicked cars, and she’d go: “OK, you’re here now, let’s get it all on the table, then we can deal with it.” That’s her superpower; she doesn’t judge or condemn, but she doesn’t skirt around things, either. She’s honest with the prisoners, so they can be honest with her.

What was it like filming in a prison?

It feels oppressive. Crumlin Road Gaol [formerly HM Prison Belfast] is freezing, one of the coldest places I’ve been in my life – and I’ve worked in Iceland! You’re burning energy just to stay warm. At one point we were in the green room, in warm coats, sipping tea, thinking, “Young kids get locked away here for long periods, then people wonder why they kick off when they get out?”

Do you have any views about the prison system?

I’ve probably always thought the system was broken. Especially doing this series, you think: these boys are damaged when they go in there and there’s not enough time or resources to help them while they’re there. Then they’re sent back to where they came from, which is usually the place where the problem started and they’re not going to get any help there, either. I don’t know what the solution is, but obviously neither do the Government.

‘Prison is a necessary part of society, I suppose – but what does it do to human beings?’

David Tennant plays Bobby Bailey

Did you feel that this was an important story to tell?

Initially, you go, “It’s a Jimmy McGovern script, I’ve never worked with him, he’s the guv’nor and this is an opportunity I can’t pass up.” Then you read the script and what Jimmy and [co-writer] Sam Bailey have created is just so human and accessible. I was a huge admirer of the first two series; prison is such a fertile ground for storytelling, because it’s such an extreme situation, pushing that human experience to the limits. So, while these aren’t necessarily the easiest stories, they’re the best stories and exactly the kind of characters you want to have a go at.

Who is Bobby Bailey?

He’s a prison officer at the fictional young offender institution of Alderwick, who has reached a point of stagnation. Without noticing it, he’s slipped into a routine which is not particularly inspiring. He’s probably slightly depressed, but lacking the self-awareness to realise that. His wife [played by Vinette Robinson], who works in a different prison, is feeling adrift and lonely, whereas he obviously gets some comfort from the routine of going to work, going home, watching telly and drinking too much – not an ideal recipe for a healthy relationship. There’s something slightly self-destructive about the way he’s living his life. Then, after his wife leaves him and certain events at work take place, he’s forced to shake his life up much against his will; he’s forced into moments of confrontation with himself and the world around him. He has to examine who he is and what he’s there for.

It’s a hard thing to reconcile yourself with when you stand inside one of those cells

Did you meet any serving or retired prison officers?

Yeah, we had Andy and Louise, who are serving prison officers and, by the time the series comes out, will be a married couple themselves, so it has been fascinating to talk to them about those intersections – although they’re in a very happy relationship, I hasten add! They’ve helped give a sense of what things might mean emotionally, but also just to go: “No, you grab the head like that!”

We also had the two Garys, who are retired officers and former prison governors and were great for procedural protocol and getting a sense of the job. They really emphasised how the job is about engendering respect, because you only gain a certain amount of authority through brute force. Gaining that respect through having a basic humanity and understanding of what everyone’s going through, but without being soft on them or allowing people to wrap you around their finger, will make life easier and the prison a better place to be. It allows you to get through the day.

How did filming in a disused prison like Crumlin Road Gaol affect you?

It’s a very emotive place. We made part of the prison look like a contemporary young offender institution, based on the bones of the building, then we’d escape upstairs between takes where you’re seeing the actual cells people were in for a long time. They saw a lot of fairly serious prisoners, so the history is in the walls. It’s a necessary part of a civilised society, I suppose, but what does that do to the human beings that are incarcerated? I’m not saying they don’t deserve to be there, but it’s an extraordinary thing that we do to each other. When you stand inside one of those cells and imagine that door being locked for days, months, years, it’s a hard thing to reconcile yourself with.

How did you enjoy working with the young cast?

They’ll be thinking, “All scripts are this good…” They’re being spoilt! Honestly, I keep thinking people will discover this show in 20 or 30 years and be amazed at how many of the acting fraternity – they’ll be part of the furniture by then – all started on this job. They’ve found such a clutch of exciting new talent that it’s a daily joy and a marvel to watch them. It’s very instinctive, but they all seem to already know their way around how to tell a story and put a scene together. I was not that efficient or talented at that age.